The Inerrancy of God’s Word Conference

I will be playing percussion for Buck Storm this weekend at a Bible conference so any comments will be held until I get back on Monday. I am grateful to be playing someplace warm and not in a foot of snow as well as near my home town of Phoenix, Ariz.
Here is the link to the conference.

http://www.godlyconferences.com/the-inerrancy-of-gods-word-

Hope to see some of you there.
Peace
Tim

A email from a concerned Nazarene

This was forwarded to me last week and I was asked to share this with you.
Peace
Tim

Subject: Emergent church

Dear Grace Nazarene,

We recently received your link and read of your stand against the emergent
church movement. We are sending along our support to you, as we have also
took a stand here in California at our local Nazarene church.

I have grown up in the Nazarene body of believers, attended Mount Vernon
Nazarene Univ., and began to raise my family actively participating in
Nazarene board leadership, quizzing, music ministries, etc.

But the “Purpose Driven”, “Seeker”, “Emergent” movement infiltrated our
local body and caused many of us who disagree with it to make a choice of
either “catching the wave” or finding somewhere else to worship. After over
a year of much prayer, research, and meetings with our Pastor; we followed
the Lord’s clear leading to remove ourselves from this unbiblical strong
influence that was so disheartening.

We currently are attending a community church that openly voices their
concerns for this movement.

My husband has spent much time in the research that you are encouraging, and
he has put together a Power Point presentation that we gave to our Nazarene
Pastor and a portion of the body. We are sending it along to you as well in
hopes that it will aid your efforts in the upcoming General Assembly.

We wish your church was located closer to our family…

God Bless your efforts. In prayerful support,
Melanie (Sneary) Trowbridge

A letter from a pastor

This letter was forwarded to me by evangelist Beverly Turner to post on the blog.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ! Before I share a concern with you
all, I would like you each to understand that I do not write this letter for
any personal gain. I stand before you all as a mere man. If it was not for
the breath of God, breathed into this formation of dust, I would not be able
to speak. Furthermore, if it was not for the love that He has so richly
given, a love that I do not deserve, I would have no reason to speak on the matter
at hand. However, he has given me love for both the brethren, and the
denomination in which I am a part. It is with this love that I address you all.

For some time I have been grieved because the great age of apostasy in which
we are now living. For three years Paul had “warned” the church that, “from
among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things to draw away
disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:30) In our day and age, we have
something known as the Emergent Church that has done this very thing. It has risen
up among us, and is now seeking to corrupt the Christian Church. I have known
a young man, that was once in the faith, and a graduate of theology in one
of our academic institutions, that has been “drawn away” by emergent type
theology. He is currently involved in an Emergent Church that is led by a
homosexual pastor and promotes a promiscuous lifestyle (as do many emergent
thinkers).

Until now, I have not been able to ascertain whether this may have been a
fault of one of our academic institutions – although I have for some time been
reading books of a disturbing nature that have been permitted on our
campuses (I will be glad to give anyone a list who would like to research further).
The Spirit has led me to believe otherwise. Firstly, I submitted a prayer
request to the evangelist prayer line that stated my concern. Several of our
evangelists responded by sharing that their hearts were also grieving.
Secondly, I have researched several websites that would indicate the emergent
church is among us, “speaking perverse” doctrines.

I encourage you each to research the emergent church for yourselves, and its
impact upon our own denomination. Please seek His counsel on this matter,
> for if it is I that persuade you, then there is nothing of which to be
concerned. “But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send
in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” (John 14:26)

I have listed several sites below, and a petition which I have attached.
The petition is now been handed around in an aim to find clarity on where we
now stand as a denomination. I urge you, brothers and sisters, if the Spirit
so burdens you, to put pen to paper. For I want nothing more than for us all
than to say with Paul: “therefore, I testify to you this day that I am
innocent of the blood of all men” because you have “contended earnestly for the
faith that was once given for all delivered to the saints.” (Acts 20:26; Jude 3)

Lastly, I pray that you do not grow discouraged over these matters. I would
like to serve to assure you all that the current apostasy is a sign of the
times (as other evangelist have served to assure me). We are drawing ever
closer to His great and glorious appearing. I leave you with His Word:

“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In
My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told
you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for
you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may
be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.” (John 14:1-4)

Yours in Christ,
Joe Staniforth

_http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/_ (http://www.lighth
ousetrailsresearch.com/) (a good introduction to the Emergent Church)
_http://www.ericbarger.com/nazarene.emergent.menu.2.htm_
(http://www.ericbarger.com/nazarene.emergent.menu.2.htm)
_http://www.concernednazarenes.org_ (http://www.concernednazarenes.org/)
_http://www.avpublications.com/3_catalogue/nabv/nabv.htm_
(http://www.avpublications.com/3_catalogue/nabv/nabv.htm)
_http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html_
(http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html)
_http://www.nazarenemissioninternational.org/_
(http://www.nazarenemissioninternational.org/)
_http://archives.allelon.org/missional_journey/_
(http://archives.allelon.org/missional_journey/)
_http://emergentnazarenes.blogspot.com/_
(http://emergentnazarenes.blogspot.com/)
_http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs019/1101818841456/archive/1102354700732.
html_
(http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs019/1101818841456/archive/1102354700732.html)
_http://www.ncnnews.com/nphweb/html/ncn/article.jsp?sid=10000023&id=10006689_
(http://www.ncnnews.com/nphweb/html/ncn/article.jsp?sid=10000023&id=10006689)

Following Jesus Christ without the Bible by Mike Oppenheimer

Following Jesus Christ without the Bible

The Bible teaches us that it was written by chosen men of God but the source was the Spirit of God.

2 Timothy 3:14: “But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. “ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” Now we need to comprehend what is meant by this. The writing that Paul is referring Timothy to is sacred, it gave him knowledge for salvation. The Scripture written down from the beginning and passed on to generations was all inspired by God (meaning God breathed), he moved the men, as prophets, scribes, to write the words down. So it is not by there own initiative but God instructing them – This is God’s communication to mankind. ALL Scripture (the writings) means ALL.

Given by God, “God breathed” in the Greek-theopneustos- divinely breathed in. Its source was not man but God. Many have used the example of a wind blowing a sail of ship to carry it along to its destination. In Genesis God breathed into man the breath of life and he became a living soul. In the same sense the word of God has life, (Jesus said my words is Spirit and life) it gives life to those receive it; those who believe it, use faith.

The Scripture has its origin with God not man, (2 Pt.1:21) it is God’s word written in the language of men, God inspired men to write, communicating to man on our level of understanding. Inspiration’ refers to the way in which God’s revelation is expressed by the words through men in the Bible. The Spirit of God superintended the human authors of Scripture so that their writings communicated accurately God’s word to man.

The ancient Greek manuscripts we have been handed down are reliable and faithfully copied from the original inspired autographs, which were, “GOD breathed.” The 0.5% has nothing to do with the core teachings of our faith, we call fundamentals. Any differences in the various manuscripts are minor (in translations) and in no way affect Christianity’s unique claims on the person of Christ and the doctrines he taught. All but 11 verses are found of the New Testament, proving the Bible we have today is the same as what was written then.

If we compare the Old and New Testament manuscripts to that of ancient Rome or Greek history we would be surprised. Homer’s “Iliad” written in 900 BC has 643 copies; the first copy was found 500 years later (400 BC). Caesar’s “Gallic Wars” written in 65 BC has 10 copies; the first copy found 835 years later (900 AD). Plato’s “Tetralogies” written in 400 BC has 7 copies; the first copy found 1,300 years later (900 AD). The volcanic eruption of Pompei is accepted as history but it has only one manuscript.

When we look at the New Testament manuscripts there are nearly 25,000 partial and complete manuscript copies of the New Testament. The New Testament fragments are within one generation from the original, we have whole books within about 100 years from the time of the autograph, we have the entire New Testament within 250 years from the date of its completion. No other ancient piece of literature comes close to the Bibles substantiation of its accuracy.

We have whole copies of the Old Testament from 900 AD. When the dead sea scrolls were found preceding the Old Testament text from 900 Ad by 1,000 years, it was nearly word for word it was accurate

If the Bible is to be rejected for its inaccuracy in recording history and events than all ancient history is suspect. The Bible history is not found only in the Bible, secular Historians like Josephus, the Roman Tacitus, the Roman Suetonius, the Roman Governor Pliny the Younger, confirm the people and their customs, the many places and events that are recorded in the New Testament. In order to dismiss the Bible as, inaccurate, not historical or even “corrupt” we must discount a large portion of history. Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, and Homer. What copies we have are superior in number and accuracy, we might as well dismiss all of history if we deny the Bibles accuracy as we have it.

According to a recent Pew survey (August), “only 39 percent of Christians believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, and 18 percent think that it’s just a book written by men and not the word of God at all. In fact, on the question in the Pew survey about what it would take to achieve eternal life, only 1 percent of Christians said living life in accordance with the Bible” (referenced from Heaven for the Godless? By Charles M. Blow Dec. 27, 2008 Op-Ed Columnist) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/opinion/27blow.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print

Where do they get ideas like this? Could it be from the current books and videos that are being spread from a youth movement called The Emergent church. They see themselves as having an ongoing conversation, discussing the Bibles doctrines and beliefs and many times challenging the word of God that is now 3500 years written (Old Testament) and was accepted as accurate and true by believers throughout the centuries and in Jesus’ day.

While not everyone in the Emergent movement has the same view, the prevailing consensus is liberal. The conversation consists of men like Brian McLaren who states, “Scripture is something God had ‘let be,’ and so it is at once God’s creation and the creation of the dozens of people and communities and cultures who produced it” (McLaren, p. 162 Generous Orthodoxy, (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2004)

Besides making this an equal distributorship, McLaren is parroting nearly the same argument of Roman Catholicism. That Tradition along with the written word transmits to us the Word of God. Man creating the word is not the view the Bible explains its origin. It is supernaturally delivered to men or it cannot be from God.

Rob Bell who writes in his book the Velvet Elvis, he tells us that the Bible is a “human product… rather than the product of divine fiat.” So he has come to the conclusion that “Everybody’s interpretation is essentially his or her own opinion,” which means no one can be sure they have arrived at the truth, which the word is called by Jesus (Quoted in Christianity Today, November, 2004, p. 38.)

Bell further makes his point by asking: “Is the bible the best that God can do? With God being so massive and awe-inspiring and full of truth, why is his book capable of so much confusion?” (Velvet Elvis)

Who is the one confused? God or man? We have two views in conflict, an infallible person reading a fallible Scripture or fallible person reading the infallible Scripture. I choose the later.

If the written word is only mens words, then why did the Hebrew Scribes have so much respect when they were copying it. If they made one small mistake on a letter, they did not use the page and started to copy it all over again.

Jesus was also quite sure what the Scripture was as he always referred to it to validate what he taught about himself. Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? Matthew 22:29: But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.” Could the problem be the same today?
Bell says he believes in the Virgin Birth but does not believe that this belief is necessary for others to know Christ in forgiveness of sins. Yet the Bible teaches this about the way Christ entered our human existence, to ignore this or eliminate it is affecting a core doctrine on the person of Christ (God come in human flesh). On page 46 of Bell’s book, his position is that the Bible is an open-ended book. Once one comes to this view anything can change.

With an open view one does not have to uphold the ancient story of the one who was born at Bethlehem that grew up and ended dying for us on a cross- this is how it is presented today, even inside the church. This is not a conversation but a struggle – a struggle about the word and holding to a literal, biblical interpretation. The Emergent Church movement is using a liberal, mystical paradigm for the church. They want to be a Christian without the word.

This is why they can accept other religions practices, because they are not practicing the word. Why are they not practicing the word? Because they do not recognize it as God’s authority over their lives. By rejecting the word of God given by the Spirit of God they are rejecting the Word of God that became flesh- Jesus.

Its not why can’t God get it right but can they grasp the truth reinterpreting it by their sinful nature and human reasoning? Whatever doctrines these men uphold it is ambiguous by their writings and speaking.

2 Peter 1:20-21: “knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” Prophecy as well as the writings are all from God as their source and it speaks of Jesus. It is the testimony of Jesus. This is why Jesus used the Old Testament to validate that was indeed the Messiah that was prophesied.

The church’s commission is to protect and promote the word. Paul speaks of conduct in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” We are entrusted with the sacred writings in the same way Israel was given the oracles of God. Paul further goes on to qualify this by stating V.16 ‘And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory (1 Tim. 3:15-16).

The mystery of godliness- God came as man and this is the message that went out to the world.

God did not only send the Holy Spirit, nor did He only give the Bible, the Word of God. He gave us both, the purpose of the Spirit was to lead us into the written truth, illuminate the teachings and give us power to live them. You can’t know God and His ways outside the Bible. Christians, century after century kept Bible doctrine- which are our parameters in following Jesus – now of all of a sudden because our culture is post modern the Bible is not enough. Because of a changing culture we must adopt new ways to interpret the word and make use of other religious practices. True Bible believers, want to live by what is written in the Bible, not something new by some smooth talker selling silky stories to mooove the crowds.

Tony Jones also states, “[We should] stop looking for some objective Truth that is available when we delve into the text of the Bible.”

Brian McLaren likewise writes:

“The Bible is not considered an accurate, absolute, authoritative, or authoritarian source but a book to be experienced and one experience can be as valid as any other can. Experience, dialogue, feelings, and conversations are equated with Scripture while certitude, authority, and doctrine are to be eschewed! No doctrines are to be absolute and truth or doctrine must be considered only with personal experiences, traditions, historical leaders, etc. The Bible is not an answer book” (Brian, McLaren, A New Kind of Christianity, p. 52.)

So then who has the answers? McLaren certainly does not, but he is telling us how to view the word of God. The same word which God has said Ps 119: 89: “Forever, O LORD, your word is settled in heaven.” Ps.119:160 “The entirety of Your word is truth.” Prov. 30:5 “Every word of God is pure.” Psalm 138:2 states that His Word is exalted above His name” But these men have disdain for the word, they diminish its importance and its power. In so doing they reject Jesus the giver of the word- who is called the word.

Jesus taught that the Old Testament is perfect to the letter (Mt. 5:17-18). Scripture cannot be broken (Jn. 10:35). It is free from error, it is a sure, safe, and reliable rule and guide in all matters. This is the doctrine of inerrancy and infallibility. This new kind of Christian McLaren refers to which is being developed in the emergent church movement is a critic of God and His word. If they continue on this course they will become as much a believer as the fallen one.

Tony Jones, youth speaker and National Coordinator of Emergent Village speaks frankly:

“I am quite convinced that the Bible is a subversive text, that it constantly undermines our assumptions, transgresses our boundaries, and subverts our comforts. This may sound like academic mumbo-jumbo, but I really mean it. I think the Bible is a f___ scary book (pardon my French, but that’s the only way I know how to convey how strongly I feel about this.)” (Tony Jones, “Why is the Emerging Church drawn to deconstructive theology? The church and postmodern culture: Conversation website, 3/26/2007.)

With uncontrollable mouths and opinions like these who needs Satan to come along and bring doubt.

The attitude of liberalism is strong in the Emergent church as they try to reshape Christianity into something different. Experience is held above doctrine which is straight out of the New Age movements handbook. New age promoter the late Marilyn Ferguson wrote The Aquarian Conspiracy stating, “The radical Center of spiritual experience seems to be knowing without doctrine … the teacher does not impart knowledge but technique. This is the ‘transmission of knowledge by direct experience.’ Doctrine on the other hand, is second-hand knowledge, a danger” (Marilyn Ferguson, The Aquarian Conspiracy pp. 371, 377.)

I find little difference on doctrine from “emergent liberals” and the Gnostics of the New Age. Gnosticism believed that God communicated revelation directly to the spirit, bypassing the mind, not using doctrine, the word. The New Age Movement bases their teaching on experience is a greater teacher than God’s word, which Jesus taught and called the truth.

If the Bible and doctrine are not central then what is your source for Truth?

Titus 1:9: “Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught” Rom.16:17-18: “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” Why say this unless doctrine is our guideline and teaching otherwise it is detrimental to ones life.

In the popular book the Shack we read of this same belittling of God’s word.

“In seminary [Mack] had been taught that God had completely stopped any overt communication with moderns, preferring to have them only listen to and follow sacred Scripture, properly interpreted, of course. God’s voice had been reduced to paper, and even that paper had to be moderated and deciphered by the proper authorities and intellects…Nobody wanted God in a box, just in a book. Especially an expensive one bound in leather with gilt edges, or was that guilt edges?” (The Shack p. 65-66)

What an obnoxious statement that goes contrary to God’s view. If we are not conducting our spirituality from “The Word” but from other sources or other ways, then we are living by our own opinions, we are not living the Christian life of walking in the Spirit. One is being truculent to think you can improve on what Jesus taught by using your own unique interpretations.

Paul wrote to Timothy “give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine,” “Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you” (1 Timothy 4:13, 16).

In John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.” Doctrine is not just a set of rules to remember it is something Jesus served under in obedience to the Father so that he could bring salvation.

McLaren, true to form states “As in so many issues these days, the problem isn’t the Bible; it’s the assumptions we bring to the Bible about how it is supposed to be interpreted. We make demands of the Biblical writers that we don’t make of any other writers, and I’m not sure our demands are sensible or fair at all. As an analogy, I often refer to the Wizard of Oz in my teaching. Does this mean that I believe Dorothy was a historical figure? No. It means that I accept the story of Oz as being part of our culture, and that I can use it to illustrate truth or provide analogies to truth.”(Brian McLaren)

One thing for sure, McLaren is consistent. To McLaren the Bible is not truth itself but illustrates truth, thus it is not taken as literal history or spiritual truth which contains power within its word but is more like a metaphor or something that helps correspond to truth. But in this case truth is putty in the hand of the interpreter. The 66 books become equal to other literary endeavors.

The Old Testament people, events, and miracles are questioned, discussed in their ongoing conversation. The creation account (Mk. 13:19), Adam and Eve (Mt. 19:4-6; Mk. 10:6-7), Cain and Abel (Mt. 23:35; Lk. 11:50-51), Noah and the flood (Mt. 24:37-39), Abraham (Jn. 8:39-40), the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Lk. 17:28-29), Lot’s wife turning to salt (Lk. 17:32), Jonah and the whale (Mt. 12:39-41; Lk. 11:29-32), Nineveh repenting at Jonah’s preaching (Lk. 11:32), Moses and the burning bush (Mk. 12:26) and his giving the law may not be considered literally true but then illustrate some truth. These become allegories of something deeper- which is what the Liberal Jesus seminars position has been. It is then left up to the interpreter how far he wants to go in this open book called the Bible.

If the Bible is not about absolute truth and doctrine does not teach truth but is instead about hopes and ideas that give us windows to live life by, then we are never anchored in anything absolute or eternal. There is a Biblical hermeneutic principle to be used to come to the right conclusion of the authors meaning. Unfortunately theology and doctrine are not taught today, so a plethora of opinions by unlearned men rule in its place.

When we replace the doctrine in Scripture with doctrines of men – our own interpretations become what we follow. This is a repeat of what the Pharisees did with their own interpretations and additions to the law in Jesus’ day.

For years we have seen spiritual movements divorce them-self from the word of God and think they are being led by the Spirit. Now the emergent movement that has become mature in its position they show their disregard for the word. Neo-Orthodoxy teaches that the Scriptures cannot be relied upon. Karl Barth taught we need an existential encounter with Christ to know Him, there were shreds of mysticism in his concept of encountering Christ. A denial of Biblical inerrancy by saying the Bible is a window into revelation and not revelation itself.

McLaren’s writing and lectures have the intention to bring questions about the surety we hold on the word. While it is good to question some things, to arrive at an accurate interpretation we must study the subject out. McLaren does not use the Bible to come to his conclusions as we can see in his interview with Christianity Today: “I don’t think we’ve got the gospel right yet. What does it mean to be ’saved’? When I read the Bible, I don’t see it meaning, ‘I’m going to heaven after I die.’ Before modern evangelicalism nobody accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, or walked down an aisle, or said the sinner’s prayer.” “I don’t think the liberals have it right. But I don’t think we have it right either. None of us has arrived at orthodoxy” (The Emergent Mystique, Christianity Today Nov.2004)

A teacher is to promote the word, the truth, the gospel not his own doubts or opinions. McClaren questions nearly everything in the Bible, so how can one preach the gospel of salvation if they do not know the truth of the gospel and exercise faith in it. The Bible says if we doubt, we are double-minded and will receive nothing. This attitude is the opposite of faith. If McLaren says we don’t understand it or know what it is, none of us have it right- then none are saved, for it is by understanding the gospel that determines whether we are saved.

Then no one can really know if they are saved or anything for that matter. Which is the very opposite of what John wrote in his first epistle. I Jn 5:13: “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.” Having eternal life means going to heaven- Jesus said I give them eternal life, where I am they may be also.

Tell me a story

Erwin McManus tells us: “The Christian faith grew through story – not text. Only later did the stories become Scripture. While the Scripture must be held in the highest regard, we must not neglect the power of story” (Erwin McManus, “An Unstoppable Force,” p. 118)

The Bible says something very different. Paul wrote: “Greet the brethren who are in Laodicea, and Nymphas and the church that is in his house. Now when this epistle is read among you, see that it is read also in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea” (Col. 4:15-16).

McManus believes in storytelling over Scripture and he separates it from doctrine, “The church must acclimate to a changing world, or she will destine herself to irrelevance or even extinction. … that- our environment is the shift from words to images. To do church in a way that is entirely text driven is the kiss of death.”

This is not a good direction? Picture Christianity is an intentional departure from God’s word.

They find justification for a new practice under the tutelage of openness and experience and excuse anything they do as acceptable to God. On the other hand, there are those, a remnant, that live in the truth by the Bible as they did in the apostles time. Jesus said in Luke 11:28: “blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” are you willing to do this? We think in words not pictures.

John 8:31-32 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.” And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” Jesus later spoke “thy word is truth” So why would those who claim to follow Jesus not want to hear or abide in the truth?

McManus explains “The Christian faith grew through story – not text. Only later did the stories become Scripture. While the Scripture must be held in the highest regard, we must not neglect the power of story” Erwin McManus, “An Unstoppable Force, p. 118)

God spoke His word to the prophets and gave them the future – written prophecy- are we going to call these stories? Yes Jesus used everyday life to have people understand his teachings but if one reads the Bible correctly they will find over 30 parable and stories and hundreds of quotes from the Old Testament as Jesus drew people back to a faith and fulfillment in God’s word.

McManus also says “One of the arts that leaders must craft is the selection of great stories.” (McManus, “”An Unstoppable Force,” p. 118
McManus’ makes this plain by his symbol for water, shaped in the symbol of the Yin and Yang, a Chinese symbol associated with Tai Chi. symbolizing oneness.

His idea of mosaic contains synthesizing another religious symbols and concepts with Christianity. This speaks loud and clear where the Emergent church is headed.

On the website http://theoriginsproject.org- five elements are illustrated:

WIND: Commission: Mission is why the church exists: People matter most.
WATER: Community: Love is the context for all mission: Love permeates everything.
WOOD: Connection: Structure must always submit to spirit: Passion fuels action.
FIRE: Communion: Relevance to culture is not optional: Relevance communicates truth.
EARTH: Character: Creativity is a natural result of spirituality. Character creates change.
These five categories are reinterpreted by Christian idea or words that have no resemblance to the Bible. They belong to other religions, Taoism- Yin and Yang. This is neo-Christianity- a synthesis of other religious ideas.

To some “Emergent pupils” God doesn’t care what religion you are in, just add Jesus to what you already are practicing and that will make you a believer in God (Christian?),

John writes of Jesus in his book the Revelation of Jesus Christ and commends those that keep his word, hold fast to his name, and did not deny My faith. Deut. 4:2: “Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.”

These “reshapers” of the church are interested in redefining Christian beliefs, reinterpreting the Bible to what they think; adding teachings and practices that are not in Scripture.

L. Sweet in a moment of transparency writes “Old Lights include the resurgent fundamentalists in every religion who put a freeze on history and fortify their adherents against the “new dark age” in which they are forced to live. “Back to the Bible,” Old Lights shout; “back to the Koran,” Old Lights thunder. But not everything Old Lights say is wrong. Much is right. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, the old adage reminds us.” (Sweet p.46 Quantum Spirituality)

Putting aside the sarcasm, Sweet has put the Bible put on equality with the Koran. Back to the Bible is what Jesus pointed the Pharisees too that were wrong in their religious practices- back to the Bible is what the apostles told the church. Peter wrote “That you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior” (2 Peter 3:2; Jude 1:17). The light has not changed, the bible says the light is his word that is constant in a dark fallen world.

The reformation began by going back to the Bible? Jesus referred to the Old Testament in nearly everything he taught. Jesus began His ministry by quoting Isaiah 61, Scripture, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing” (Luke 4:21). Jesus always quoted the Scriptures as the final source of authority (Matt. 22:29 32; Mark 7:9, 13). He often stated the phrase, “It is written,” (repeated 92 times New Testament), “have you not read?” “search the Scriptures”, “is it not written in your law?” “You err, not knowing the Scriptures…”

And here lies the problem NOT knowing the Scripture. Their mission is to convince you to let go of the Biblical traditions they call the old ways -for the new, they are putting the dialectic practice to work. They need to introduce this change to make you a disciple of the new inter-spirituality, so that Jesus is not considered the only way. To take this to the next level- in that no one religion has all the truth, they are all like spokes of the same wheel, how do I know this… I used to believe this as I read the Bible while practicing other religions as part of the new age movement before I became a Christian. Those of us who were once there easily recognize what is at work.

As Brian McLaren states “I can’t see church history in any other way except this: semper reformanda, continually being led and taught and guided by the Spirit into new truth.”

Paul admonishes “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly” (Col. 3:16). On the other hand he warns in 1 Cor.4:6 “not to go beyond what is written.” But this is what this emergent movement is about, they adopt other religions practices and unbiblical teachings and interpretations to produce their spirituality. Which make them a neo-christian sect.

How can the church be effective in the time we live in? Not become Postmodern, or multicultural or adopt inter-spirituality

W. E. Vine wrote, “Those who have been known as men of God have lived under the power and guidance of the Scriptures” (W. E. Vine, Collected Writings). This is why Psalm 138:2 states, God esteems His Word above His name.

Pt.2 The Real problem with the Emergent Movement

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The Underlying Problem(s) with the Emergent Church Movement

This also features some information about the Nazarene M-7 Conference in which Jon Middendorf was a key player. Tim Condor is mentioned in the article.
The Underlying Problem[s] with the Emergent Church Movement? by Mike Oppenheimer

Questions that are not properly answered do not easily go away. The church has done a poor job explaining the Bible and upholding its eternal teachings and instructions in our day.

The youth who at times are intellectually stimulated are looking for fresh approaches to faith. Many have become discouraged and disillusioned about the way they thought the church should be, it has motivated them to look elsewhere. They have become open to other spiritual paths and have pursued other avenues for answers to a spiritual life. At the same time they are experimenting, they are holding on to some semblance of Christian teaching, adding what seems beneficial, essentially making up their own personal religion. We are seeing a repeat of the same events we had in 60’s -70’s rejecting their parents religion the youth sought spirituality in other places. Severing themselves from the religious traditions they were brought up in; except this time it is orthodox Christianity (historic biblical Christianity).

“Emergents” do not see the written Word as self contained absolutes. They engage in conversation on it, which they believe opens our hearts to progress and brings back “reason.” Those who are most susceptible to this are the disenfranchised from biblical Christianity, which is becoming more rare throughout the landscape of churches. As a movement they are spiritually inclusive, seeking ways to enhance their spirituality that they cannot find contained in the traditional church. They are open to accept other spiritual concepts of God that the Bible calls unbiblical. Many believe that they are on an adventure that will arrive at true faith. They are willing to participate in experimental changes to get us to this place where the church can be more effective to a postmodern culture.

Leonard Sweet says it like this, “Postmodern culture is a change-or-be-changed world. The word is out: Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die” (Leonard Sweet, Soul Tsunami: Sink or Swim in the New Millennium Culture (Zondervan, 1999), p. 74-75)

Emergent church leader Dan Kimball writes, ‘So, the emerging church is about a re-imagining: re-imagining our preaching, our evangelism, and our worship services. A re-imagining of new types of churches and an opportunity to be rethinking all we do because we recognize that the next generation is at stake if we don’t.” (underline mine)

Actually, the next generation is at stake if they do. The idea that the postmodern culture needs to be reached by more than what is written is incongruous and defeats the message in the Scripture that contains the power of God. This emergent movement is not just postmodern, it is post everything- POST gospel.

Every generation becomes postmodern from the generation before to some degree. This whole theme of postmodernism is a fallacy. They present a paralogism as the answer to have the church change.

Sweet challenges the churches reluctance by stating, “So far the church has refused to dip its toe into postmodern culture. A quantum spirituality challenges the church to bear its past and to dare its future by sticking its big TOE into the time and place of the present….” (Leonard Sweet, Quantum Spirituality, p. 10)

We can no longer do church the same way because the world has changed is their flawed premise. The world is always changing, its in flux because it is not living by the eternal standards of God. God gave us (the Church) the word – the truth in an objective form so that it can be easily understood, lived and communicated. That it cannot be easily manipulated or interpreted by the genre of a generation.

So what do they do to change the church? Doug Pagitt, one of the early Emergent leaders is pastor of “Solomon’s Porch” in Minneapolis. The church sits in a circle on couches and recliners instead of rows of pews. This makes a more informal atmosphere but this is only the first in many steps to change the way the church thinks and acts in today’s world.

Emergent Church promoters are quick to point out the ways the church fails to reach the culture. But the solution they propose is far worse than the problems they see. New Age concepts and practices from eastern mysticism, universalism, and pantheism are part of their program. They are comfortable using non biblical ideas from other religions. To be relevant to a postmodern culture in this manner is NOT the answer. The Lord can reach people in whatever culture they are in- what is more important is what is being USED to reach them. The means is as important as the result. In fact, you cannot get a result from God by using what is borrowed from other religions ass the means. “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God” (1 Cor 3:19). Of course postmodern pragmatists do not take this into account.

“The church must provide postmoderns with an alterity of rituals by which they can turn and tune to one another and feel connected to the cosmos” (Leonard Sweet, Quantum Spirituality, p. 137).

Is this what the church’s obligation is, to have people feel connected to the cosmos? The pursuit to become more relevant to a wayward generation has these churches groping for solid ground.

It is the word of God- the living epistles are to be used to bring the message of God’s love and grace to people. Instead of catering to postmodernism by adopting its principles or ways they should be learners of the word –equipped to give answers and disciple this generation.

Leonard Sweet states it like this: “Postmodern missions must have a geomantic imagination and geomantic design. What I am calling a geomantic style of evangelization will ensure harmonious habitation patterns as the gospel interconnects and interacts with all life-and landforms” (Quantum Spirituality, p.168).

There is the answer in emergent church language, but what does it mean in English? I don’t really know. What I do see is a pattern in Sweets “Cosmic Christianity” that is laced with eastern thought and environmental droppings.

Geomancy means divination by geographic features or by figures or lines (American Heritage Dictionary)

divination by means of signs connected with the earth (as points taken at random or the arrangement of particles thrown down at random or from the configuration of a region and its relation to another) (WordNet 3.0, 2006 by Princeton University) http://dictionary.reference.com/

The gospel is to save humans from their sins, that is Jesus’ style of evangelizing, but now we have a new emerging evangelization.

The Emergents make the point that sacred and secular has no division in this world. In the book Emerging churches by Eddie Gibbs and Ryan K. Bolger — Postmodern Christianity exposes the lie of “secular space” and celebrates the reign and imminence of God everywhere and at all times. They claim the church created the distinction of the private sector and secular space. The modern church’s message is come to us to find God. Instead, they view the world and all in it belonging to God as the Psalms declare, the modern church created “God’s house.”

They fail to see the distinction of ownership and influence. God may be the owner of the world but is he the peoples infleunce?

“all life is sacred” there is no such place as a God’s forsaken place, this world is God’s”(M7 Conference)

While the world belongs to God it is not under his influence but Satan’s. The distinctions are made by God in the Scripture, not the church. God says the world hates us that we are not of the world. John writes the world and the believer are at odds with each other: I Jn. 2:15-17 “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world– the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life– is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.”

This is why it says in James 4:4: “Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.”

Jesus said: “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.” “If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you” (John 15:18-19)

I Jn. 4:4-5: “You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.”

We are also told the nations do not worship God. That Satan is the God of this world, that he has power and influence over the things that are in a sinful condition, which is nearly everything except the believer that walks in the Spirit. I Jn. 5:19: “We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.”

In fact we are told in Rev 11:15 when the seventh angel sounded: then “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ…” in the meantime Eph 2:2 Tells us the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience” To conclude that the secular and sacred are one is hardly what the Scripture portrays. For “the Spirit of truth” the world cannot receive” (John 14:17).

Acts 26:18 Paul explains it is the gospel is the tool God gave us to rescue those in darkness. There are God events everyday, divine appointments for those who feet are shod with the gospel of peace.

The world is one of the territories used to tempt us (it was used on Jesus) we are in a spiritual war with the world, the flesh and the Devil. None of these have been defeated in a completed or final sense. To adopt the ways of the world to reach the world is antithetical to what the bible teaches.

Since doctrine is diminished the emphasis in the emergent church movement is spiritual experience. In the Emergent church we find them using contemplative prayer, in yoga positions, eastern type meditation, walking through labyrinths, and other alternative non Christian practices to induce for themselves a spiritual experience. But when discussing the word of God they view it as if it is not absolutely true. When you deny the importance of doctrine or question it as the emergent church does the only thing left to pursue is experience, which is the modus operandi of worship in their gatherings. This is a religious Pollyanna movement where they accept other methods and practices, believing it will enhance or improve their spirituality without any consequences. By using these other religions practices it will make you more like Jesus. But when you open yourself up using other spiritual methods to produce an experience you are no longer practicing the way of Christ Jesus, his Spirit is not involved.

For example In Rob Bell’s Velvet Elvis, he tells us that the Bible is a “human product… rather than the product of divine fiat.” So he has come to the conclusion that “Everybody’s interpretation is essentially his or her own opinion” which means no one can be sure they have arrived at the truth, which the word is called by Jesus.

When doctrinal teaching is put in practice it will manifest the power of God in those who walk by faith and in the Spirit.

Heb 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen., it goes on to say by faith we understand… faith comes from hearing the word, which I find is scarcely taught in this movement. When you base a movement on re-evaluating the word of God under the auspices of progress it is Doctrinal anarchy, rebellion. The Bible does not need to be discussed by groups to try to decipher what the stories mean to them.

They are so open minded in their thinking that they don’t even see the lines they have drawn replace God’s instructions. New interpretations justify the new concepts they are introducing to the church.

Tim Condor at the M-7 Conference (Mission 2007 Church of the Nazarenes Feb.19-21 2007):

“Doctrine has functioned as the boundary to our community. “I think that putting doctrine at the fence-line has a bunch of challenges, one challenge is a theological and biblical challenge, is that doctrine sometimes works that way in the New Testament and Old Testament but sometimes it doesn’t. I alluded to the story in Mk.2 this morning where Jesus stands up to, or the 4 men have lowered the paralyzed man at the feet of Jesus and Jesus looks at the man that been lowered and how does Mk record the story- he turns to the four and says because of your faith I forgive his sins. The man doesn’t confess, Jesus affirms the missional community who has lowered him at his feet and that is the dynamic by which he dialogues about his ability to forgive sins, and forgiving sins is essential to the story because that’s what he’s fighting with the Pharisees about at that moment. So that’s a moment where prescriptively it doesn’t fit perfectly probably in the theology that you and I most live by.

“and there are many stories in the New Testament and the Old Testament where the baptisms the conversions, invitations, the salvations all of those things do not perfectly fit in our story. So I would suggest that using doctrine as the boundary of your community is in some ways theologically and biblically challenged, at least in this way, it doesn’t seem to work in every circumstance. I would also say, … it is functionally challenged, it, it isn’t working in the sense that we have so much disagreement in our Christian communities, its hard, this is not a bad thing, it part of a postmodern world. One definition of a postmodern world is a world that believes in lots and lots of stories rather than one big story.”

Consider the statement “doctrine sometimes works that way in the New Testament and Old Testament but sometimes it doesn’t.” What other Testament do we have? The ODD Testament? If doctrine is not the fence which the Bible clearly states it is, then what is? Someone’s personal opinion? This makes their position equal or more important than what God and his word state, that which we know is good or true. Clearly this is the Bible trapped in a relativistic box of men’s rules.

Though Mark 2:5 does say “When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.” Perceiving what they said in their hearts Jesus made the point right after with a question – “Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’?

Condor presents to us that “because of your faith I forgive his sins.” It is by proxy. Subtle as this may be, he misses the point. There is no such teaching in Scripture of forgiveness by another’s faith. They brought the man to the house believing Jesus can HEAL him ,they did not bring him for his sins to be forgiven. Jesus introduced the forgiveness of sins to demonstrate that he is able to do the greater-forgive his sins, because he is God. There is no conflict of theology or doctrine.

Mark 2:9-10 “Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’? “But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”– He said to the paralytic, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go your way to your house.”

He healed the man to prove he had the power to forgive sin- the greater work which is unseen, proving he was their Messiah.

Emergent teachers use a philosophical framework that leads to new interpretations which are of no advantage to learning the objective word of God. The Emergent teachers have invented their own way to interpret scripture and language to describe their activities (much in allegory and story form). Multi-syllable rare or invented words are used to describe what they are doing, one has to wait for a “new dictionary” to be published to understand what they mean. It becomes more confusing, despite the Pseudo intellectual veneer. They complicate what the Bible gives as a very simple approach. Seeing the Bible as short stories not recognizing the continual theme that is weaved through them all (letters, prophets) by the Holy Spirit (prophecy and fulfillment). Their conclusion- theology is failing because of disagreements (part of a postmodern world.) there is a better more accurate conclusion, unless one has the foundation of orthodoxy they can not have a accurate interpretation. This can avoid causing any division –and the word brings right orthopraxy.

The Emergent movement puts the emphasis on man and takes the focus of learning off of Christ and the word. In fact, I rarely hear the word quoted or spoken accurately in this movement, especially by the leaders. So how can there pupils be different? How can God show up as they say if they are not honoring His word?

The postmodern approach to learning differs from the method of logic or doctrine. Postmoderns would rather have an experience than think something through to its conclusion. Experience, instead of knowledge, becomes the basis for truth. Leonard Sweet expresses the dissimilarity this way, “People today are starved not for doctrines but for images and relationships and stories.” (Leonard Sweet, Andy Crouch, et al., The Church in Emerging Culture: Five Perspectives, Leonard Sweet ed. (Zondervan, 2003) p.35).

Leonard Sweet in his book “Soul Tsunami: Sink or Swim in New Millennium Culture” says: “Postmoderns want a God they can feel, taste, touch, hear and smell–a full sensory immersion in the divine.”

There is no such immersion in Christianity, but there is in eastern religions. Like mystics in past ages the spiritual “experience” replaces the importing of truth. Doctrinal “truth,” is not considered superior to experiencing “truth” in this manner, but a subjective spiritual experience. Discerning Christians know that this does not necessarily put one in touch with “truth,” it must always pass the test of doctrine.

“The words modern and skeptic went together in the same way postmodern and spiritual go together. Postmodern culture is hungry for the intimacy of psychospiritual transformations. It wants a “reenchantment of nature.” It’s aware of its ecstasy deprivation. It wants to know God “by heart.” It wants to light an inner fire, the circulating force of divine energies flowing in and flowing out. The primal scream of postmodern spirituality is for primal experiences of God. George Gallup, Jr., believes that this is the most important discovery the Gallup Poll has uncovered since its founding in 1935. Religious experience is the focal point in faith development” (Leonard Sweet, Quantum Spirituality, p. 56)

Should we to listen to secular polls or the Bible for our direction? Sweet’s descriptions sound like the yearning of occultists who elicited a deeper and direct spiritual encounter by mysticism. The Emergent Church movement intentionally breaks ranks with the church whose growth can only be built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, by learning doctrine. One cannot use an “unbiblical practice” to bring a “true” spiritual experience. Experience then becomes the teacher, and one is moved away from objective truth that is in the word of God. Instead of enhancing their spiritual growth for creative thinking to advance the gospel, the truth is crippled. The Emergent Church is more like an experiment by the architects for a “new Christianity.” It is where they can implement their innovations on the naïve and unsuspecting youth by reshaping their thinking of God and the Bible. This is done by using the dialectic process to create a new synthesis. They diminish and at times scorn the objective teaching of the word of God and present mysticism as a better means for communion (see part 1.)

But the Postmodern Christians are also in a constant state of revising their beliefs because the culture is never stagnant. The problem is that our society has always been what is termed postmodern in every age. Since when was culture such an issue? It wasn’t to the first century church that lived under Roman rule. The apostles lived in a Roman society; they did not come up with the idea of learning the cultures ways to reach out to it. Do we see any suggestions of reaching out to the Romans by using their cultural icons? I’m sure there are some people who would say– this is what Paul meant when he said I become all things to all men. No it is not.

It should be obvious that we need to address the needs of people from a biblical point of reference not from their a non biblical view which is present in every generation. If the culture starts wearing there pants backwards or there shirts inside out are we to try and understand them or do the same to reach them? Truth cannot be conformed to fit the current cultural slant, it (sometimes, not always) can be delivered to the culture by using its customs to associate an example but it cannot be dressed in these customs. This is like trying to see the sun on a rainy day; it is restricted from being seen.

The Associated Pressed reported (June 2008 report released by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life) that “57% of evangelical church attendees said they believe many religions can lead to eternal life.” How can the emergent movement improve this view when they are the ones incorporating these other religious practices into the church? In fact they find themselves in the category of 68 percent of Americans with a religious affiliation that believe there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of their own religion. We are drowning in a plethora of opinions.

This open-mindedness is spiritually dangerous for Christians. Once I observed yoga and other religions spiritual practices that I once practiced before I was a Christian, I realized there is something else in operation in this emergent movement. It was Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (who some seem to mimic in principle if not practice in this movement) that observed “In this present crisis, in which we can see and feel the confrontation between the traditional Christian forces and the modern forces of evolution, Is simply the permutations of a providential and Indispensable Inter-fertilization” (Christianity and Evolution, p. 176).

There is no question this movement finds more solidarity with other religions and the New Age Movement than with the Bible. Many of the authors they refer to are mystics, who have a non- Christian worldview. They refer to Catholic mystics that were not practicing the Christianity delivered by the apostles. Knowingly or unknowingly, this is building a bridge back to ancient Roman Catholicism and its rituals and sacramentalism. Are we going to see people end up bowing and praying to the Eucharist and statues as Catholics do? Probably so, as the movement takes on the character of those they refer to.

Alternate church practices will always emerge as people who are restless search for answers find themselves looking outside the Bible. They yearn to communicate the truths of Christianity in a new fashion so that it can be understood by this postmodern generation. But they are changing Gen-X to Gen-Z which will yield 0 if they are not careful. They encourage the youth to partake in new ways to worship, ways God never instructed. They are expanding the way miles-wide while it is about an inch-deep. You can liken the emergent church to a tree that would blow over from the slightest wind because it has no root in the ground for stability.

Paul writes to believers that were being influenced by asceticism and Gnosticism in Colossians 2: 8: “See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.” All the riches of wisdom and knowledge are found in Christ and we do not assess them by mystical methods, He gave us His Word.

The Emergent Church movement is quixotic. To look for a deeper relationship with God is a noble pursuit, but it must be done the way God instructs us. We cannot invent our own new ways, picking and choosing religious practices as if we are at some spiritual smorgasbord. Postmodernism, pluralism, relativism, interfaith are not just classifications but are values that are shaping our worldview and lives. With these influencing the church’s direction one hardly knows where to find pure Christian teaching and practice under the pile of non- biblical additions.

The struggle is really about the word, holding to a literal, biblical interpretation while the Emergent Church is a liberal, mystical hybrid movement that is developing a new paradigm of interpretations, allegorizing the Scripture. One wrong practice leads to another and with each step one gets further and further away from the way and the truth. There is a need to identify these value changes because it is a constant character of those in this movement.

“We have the great opportunity to redefine the church to emerging generations.”
(Dan Kimball, Youth Specialties Youth Worker Convention, 2002). Sounds like the culture is stuck on postmodernism and the church will continue to appease it.

This movement is a product of futurists and progressive liberals that have made the Christian faith far too complicated, using words and principles and methods not given by Jesus. We should not be entertained by the spiritual silliness of those who live by trends forged in the world.

In “A New Kind of Christian” Brian McLaren speaks about “people he meets that model what a new kind of Christian might look like. …but they generally agree that the old show is over, the modern jig is up, and it’s time for something radically new” “…if we have a new world, we will need a new church. We won’t need a new religion per se, but a new framework for our theology. Not a new Spirit, but a new spirituality. Not a new Christ, but a new Christian” (emphasis mine).

There is no such thing as “a new [kind] of Christian,” nor “a new spirituality” for those who have the truth. When you are born spiritually all things become new, you are a new creation. We have the same Holy Spirit that the early church had and his work is the same; conforming us to be like our savior, Jesus. You are either part of the faith delivered to the saints of all time or not part of them at all. Culture does not change this.

To be a Christian without the word is not possible. God gives us objective truth because God is that truth is our standard, Jesus is the word and it has been shared it to mankind by the Bible throughout our history. Jesus prayed “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth” (John 17:17) V. 19 “And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.” In other words he submitted to the word perfectly and his spirit in us should lead us to the same way to live.

In 1 Cor.4:6 Paul instructs “not to go beyond what is written.” Why say this if it is not important. It is what we are to watch so that we do not accept other teachings that are useless.

Finding our spiritual fulfillment and questions answered by the Bible should supercede any of mans reasoning or philosophical viewpoints. Without the Bible we have words and beliefs that sound spiritual but are without any spiritual substance. Jesus said, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63). As people left Jesus because they could not understand his words V.67-68 states Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

Some obviously do not believe this and think they can find spiritual life by picking and choosing what they want from other religions.

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The nature of wolves

Originally I was going to name this article “My Day with Greg Horton at the parish” but after a week , I am looking at a much bigger picture. Plus ,I need to say that guys like Greg really get under my skin and I was wrong to get in the flesh the way I did at his blog. And I apologize for that . Sometimes my own sinful nature gets the best of me and that does not honor Christ.

I want to take a look at not only what Greg stated on his blog, but what others commented on as well. Plus , there was some inaccurate information put out in the comments section that I wanted to clear up and clarify . First , let ‘ s look at the nature of wolves
Here is a story from Wikipedia. Most of us have heard this one before. The Scorpion and the Frog is a fable of unknown author, thought often mis-attributed to Aesop.[1] The story is about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion reassures him that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown as well. The frog then agrees; nevertheless, in mid-river, the scorpion stings him, dooming the two of them. When asked why, the scorpion explains, “I’m a scorpion; it’s my nature.” The story is sometimes told with a turtle or fox in place of the frog. It is often quoted to illustrate the purportedly insuppressible nature of one’s self at its base level.”
End of story.
I think this is a good illustration that could be applied to wolves in sheep clothing within the Body of Christ. What does God ‘ s Word state on what and who wolves are? Let ‘ s take a look. Jesus Christ Himself warned believers to watch out for “wolves” – a warning that included a warning to the wolves themselves of the fate that awaits them if they don’t repent of their evil: Jesus assured us that we will know them by their fruits.
Matt 7:15-23

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. I Never Knew You 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness! ” The apostle Paul also warned us about wolves that would come from among us here in scripture.

Acts 20:27-30 27 ” For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God[a] which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. ”

That verse also cautions overseers such as men like Jesse and Jon Middendorf , as well as the rest of the leadership in the Nazarene denomination , to guard the flock against false teaching. Are they doing this? In my opinion , I would say no because of the influx of the Emergent Church into the Nazarene denomination. You will have to make your own decision on what you think the Nazarene denomination leadership is up to as far as the Emergent Church is concerned. I would think the fruit speaks for itself. Now why would I think that Greg Horton is a wolf in sheeps clothing?
From Greg Hortons bio on Wired Parish alongside Len Sweet and Brian McLaren http://wiredparish.com/category.php?c_id=9 “Greg Horton is a freelance writer and adjunct professor in Oklahoma City. He teaches Bible and ethics in the adult studies program at Southern Nazarene University and ethics at Oklahoma City Community College.”

I guess Greg no longer works at Southern Nazarene University. From Gregs blog “the parish” – “It has created a crisis in the Nazarene Church, created stress for my friends in that church, got me fired from Southern Nazarene University, earned me some harsh criticism from Christians and the non-Christian who runs sliceoflaodicea.com, cost me some money with a wire service I write for, and allowed me to flesh out many, many thoughts.”
I am not linking to Gregs blog in this article because he uses really dirty language but you can’t be on that blog for five minutes and not come to the conclusion that Greg is not a believer. Here are some of his own quotes from that blog. “Another kind-hearted but poorly educated gentleman asked me if I believed in God—I had just disavowed belief in prayer, so he asked a good follow-up, I thought. I tried to get him to clarify what he meant by the question, the result of which was that he was asking if I believe Jesus is my savior/god/forgiver. No, I said. So you think we came from monkeys? sigh…” It’s one of the reasons I had to leave the faith. What Jesus says makes so much sense if there is an eschatological reckoning. But my inability to imagine an eschatological reality that incorporated justice, freedom, eternity, and humanity made it impossible for me to believe that Jesus’ teaching makes sense.
” So , Greg taught Bible and ethics at A Nazarene college?
If that doesnt scare you , you really need to check your walk. Is there hope for Greg? You bet there is. Peter denied Jesus three times and still turned out pretty good.
We need to pray for Greg and other deceived teachers like him. None the less , we still need to warn the flock as well. There are a lot of wolves out there as well as in a lot of Christian colleges and seminaries. Those are my thoughts on Greg .

Now on to some comments from a recent article on Gregs blog. A comment pertaining to Greg- “I am a better Christian for our friendship despite Tim’s misgivings.” End of comment.

This person is a better Christian because of Greg Horton? I would really like this person to expound on that comment.
Another comment- ” I am part of the Kaleo community at OKC1stNaz, and we have been attacked from the start (Which only makes me feel like we are probably doing Jesus stuff. People seem to get uncomfortable with that). ” End of comment-

I ask when are we called to do Jesus stuff? And why dont you get why people are uncomfortable with statements like that?
Another comment from the same person. “Again, you are not even Nazarene. Why are you attacking my denomination, my church and my pastor? Why are you attacking and molesting us like a predator?” End of comment.
I am a member of the Body of Christ and I do have a right and choice to point out error. I am not attacking anyone but error in teaching.
Another comment-
Fact: ” Jon has reached out to you to invite you to speak with him at any time, any place. He has even offered to speak at your church. Your response? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Silence. Like the dark side of the moon. Cold, dark, nothing. ”

Fact: ” Jesse has repeatedly attempted to contact you by email, phone and other means. ” Fact: ” You have not responded directly to him or Jon–ever.
” Fact: “You continue to call each of them out in a public forum, yet you have yet to approach either of them as the scriptures to which you subscribe require.” End of comments.

The actual facts here are this : both men have emailed me and I did respond to both politely through email’s back to them. They were also invited to respond to me in public on any of my blogs. Both men have refused to do so which is of course there choice. So the actual facts here is that
I have responded to both gentlemen. Jesse Midenddorf has only attempted to contact me through 1 (one) email which he asked me not to share with anyone publicly. Which I found a bit strange since Jesse himself cc the email to three other individuals. I have honored the request that Jesse’s email would not be shared publicly. He has never called me on the phone or contacted me through my church or any other means.
Jon Middendorf in his email did not offer to speak at my church so I’m not sure where that is coming from. I would certainly not encourage my pastor to have Jon speak at our church though because of Jon’s extreme lack of discernment concerning the Emergent Church and its teachings. That ‘ s the real fact about the above statement. I ‘ m not angry about that as well. Its everyone’s individual choice on how they choose to respond. Since this is a very public (not private) matter we will do it out in the public or not at all , as far as I ‘ m concerned.
Now as far as scripture is concerned regarding this , most people fail to realize that Matthew 18:15-17 clearly deals with private (not public) sin committed by one brother or sister in the Body against another. We read: “Moreover, if thy brother shall trespass against thee…” (KJV). All translations agree that the subject is sin or trespass, not false teaching.
Now as far as the DVD Im involved with is concerned. This will be solid biblically based information on the error and danger of the Emergent church. Yes , names will be mentioned concerning this because of its relevance. But it ‘ s not so much about the names but the teaching connected to the names. We are giving this out for free not because of a fear that no one would buy it. It’s not about the money or making a profit or recovering any money spent. It’s about getting information out to those who want it. We all have choices. You can choose not to read this blog. And hey that s ok with me for that’s your choice. You also have the choice to follow Emergent teachers and their teaching. That ‘ s your choice. We just want pastors and lay people to be made aware of the false teaching in the Emergent church and movement and how it has all but overrun the Nazarene denomination through a serious lack of discernment on the part of the leadership. If you disagree with us , that ‘ s fine. Don ‘ t get the DVD. Meanwhile , there is a huge network of pastors and lay people within the Nazarene denomination, as well as the Body of Christ , who want this DVD. We will get this to them at no charge to them. As for the true nature of wolves , the only way you will be able to discern between a wolf in sheeps clothing is not by reading this blog but by the study of God’s Word in the Bible. Then you will be able to discern truth from the counterfeit teachings that have made it’s way into the Nazarene denomination and the Body of Christ.
From wikpedia-A counterfeit is an imitation (ie, a fake) made usually with the intent to deceptively represent its content or origins, thus increasing sales appeal due to the reputation of the imitated product.
We need to always remember this. 2 Cor 11:13-15 , 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.”
Only through reading God’s Word in scripture will you be able to discern who this pertains to. Peace and Blessings , Tim

Calvinist disclaimer

Many of the videos I show are from Calvinist such as Todd Friel. I also love John MacArthur and Spurgeons preaching as well. I also think that Francis Schaffers book “The Great Evangelical Disaster” is a must read for every Christian going through what we are going through these days with the Emergent Church and their “did God really say that” theology.
But I want to say as I have on my Concerned Nazarene’s website that I believe Calvinism is error but would not consider it heresy. The biggest error is a limited atonement and here is a link to a article that refutes that. Peace Tim

http://www.biblebelievers.net/Calvinism/kjcalvn4.htm

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